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Recording of the program results from 12.09.2010 year. This story just go down in history of Russian aviation
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From want to thank the pilots for their courage and professionalism ... mozila, 8 years ago, #
Join us! toxin_pilot, 8 years ago, #
join too !!!!! skill_mihail, 8 years ago, #
Have you ever ask the administration of this resource before you do anything on their behalf =) Jeno, 8 years ago, #
You should have written without mistakes. But then so bold and stands out with an error ... fie ekha, 8 years ago, #
And where a mistake? :) Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Another Losers. :) Why did before "and" comma? ekha, 8 years ago, #
Aaaa, and I'm on punctuation and not paying attention. But I had a "good" Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Well, that's good. :) ekha, 8 years ago, #
Also join in - praise the crew and aircraft designer Tupolev - plenty of good finals would be! Flight-204, 8 years ago, #
Crew Men with a capital letter. But the flight engineer something to be seen. gazel, 8 years ago, #
I also thought about that. Acman, 8 years ago, #
In what sense? In the sense of "Oh, ya ya! Das ist fantastich!"? Or simply "Oh, ya ya!"? ekha, 8 years ago, #
is a sense about bortacha probably Сокол, 8 years ago, #
XD, burn comrades. Enterprise, 8 years ago, #
That's me to a post Acman wrote. ekha, 8 years ago, #
I personally checked the glass of water works, at least in the passenger, who does not believe, check! bob on a string, similar .. No one swelled to a shed, even in shaky alel5, 8 years ago, #
Works? And what it shows? mikuz, 8 years ago, #
40 degrees FireFly, 8 years ago, #
alel5, it's what should be shaking in an airplane, something would have spilled liquid from the cup? "Although in principle this is possible, but inclined at an angle (inside) glass with a liquid not a damn thing you do not pokazhet.Ne morochte people's head and not to be confused bus with the plane. ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
What's shaking should be for this? - Hmm, the usual turbulence. ... Normal, "by all the rules, turn to the established phase - is one thing. And it is quite another matter - a change in one steady motion to another. ... If the body does not operate or silica, they compensated - the body moves rectilinearly and uniformly or at rest - Newton's law. If the body has changed a balanced position, then, was attached to the body strength. Power shall be accelerated. Waters - a piece fluid and fluid in zero gravity takes the form of a sphere under the influence of internal forces of intermolecular attraction, but what in earthly terms, it takes the form of a vessel under the influence of external forces. At rest or rectilinear motion of each water molecule acts as a "force of Earth's gravity (well, plus the intermolecular forces), because the water surface is aligned horizontally, regardless of the inclination of the seabed and the vessel walls. If the force of Earth's gravity to swing to the side, it means that for every molecule of the force will act in a different direction, and surface water is also rejected. Or rather, deflected not by itself force of gravity, and the resultant force of Earth's gravity and acceleration, deduces the body of the rest (or rectilinear motion). ... This is usually PHYSICS. If someone does not understand - so poorly studied (or not "passed" this stuff in school). And enough already speculate. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
pardon me for asking, but: you raid much? olega154, 8 years ago, #
paladdin, a lot of clever words, but ... in fact, that you would like to say "Do not confuse the shaking of the bus with the buffeting of the plane, still in the cabin its different from the external (atmospheric) pressure, which in contrast to the bus" hangs together with the plane and even with a fairly decent rough air the water just a little shake in stakane.Letayu on airplanes (greatest bank Pax) 4-6 times a year, used to hit the rather severe buffeting, but there would be splashed himself with water or water from glasses ... this was not. ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
Well, I did write - who did not understand, then, is "not held" this theme in school. Described were basic physical laws of Newton and balancing fluid. You do not need to know ... That is, in your assumption, the air in the cabin has a stabilizing effect on water in a glass, boskolku "hanging" (and the bends!), Together with the plane? That is, you believe that a glass of water NOT spill at turn precisely because its air containing, tilted WITH PLANE? Aw, Snap! :) Do not know. Something! Surprisingly. ... No, you have not guessed. Air - stuff sooo soft compared to water. Pressure? And at a height of pressure in the cabin is even less, it is like in the mountains in height. ... Being in the car, I can also create a boost by including a maximum fan (on the dusty primers and make that the dust did not penetrate the interior) .. Saloon cars, too, if sufficiently sealed to close the window, the air is just hanging with the car. So what? That's the amount of pressure air in a confined space to create that air is not allowed to hang out water? Yes, and it is not possible. And the air, and water - things are very fluid. Vaughn, Take SODA WATER closed bottle and shake it. - Dangling water? And the air? Nuuu? Any questions? paladdin, 8 years ago, #
The plane moves in a circle without slipping and without changing the engine operating regime. The centrifugal force, gravity, buoyancy, the weight of the aircraft, engine thrust, the drag force of air ... they are compensated. This is why water does not change its status, but its weight vector will have an angle. ekha, 8 years ago, #
ekha, but now I Balde. If the aircraft moves in a circle, it means that not all the forces acting on it are compensated. When the power offset, the motion will be rectilinear uniform. And the circle neither one nor the other is not present: MOVEMENT curvilinear and nonuniform due to the action on the plane centripetal acceleration. In short, nunah, tired of course there cram school. Teach physics themselves. Good luck! Ру19300, 8 years ago, #
paladdin, and why you upside down flips? thought out some nonsense, and themselves as they and obyasnili.Ya nothing like it claimed, but from what I am saying you do not correct and stupid vyvody.A now my question is You and did not answer - perecheslyaya laws of physics, that you mean by that? ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
:) ROCK_AVIA, I say that it is ridiculous to look at you. Building a "hypothesis" about the water, not knowing the elementary laws of equilibrium of fluids, and generally, only consider the ideal case of steady motion. And why then slip pointers? And you know how they work? Another thing that fly under the index slip - at another question. And are you wondering what type of air in the cabin hangs together with the plane ... Well, yes, hanging. From what you say can be understood that the air pressure is the cause of calm water in the beaker with shaking in the plane. Well, they say, the bus air does not move after the bus, so chtoli? Well it's almost black and white that you have written. A passenger on the cabin quickly preshel - set in motion the air. But a glass of water is not splashed out on this. .... THIS IS what I wanted. What builds a theory, not knowing the essence of things. That answer satisfied? Yes. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Ru19300, I'm a little too confused. You want to understand that the water will be parallel to the horizon or not? I say that along the horizon, it will not. It will take any position depending on the various forces. Roughly speaking, for the same roll, but different modes of engine operation, angle of attack and so on, the water will have a different position. Therefore, bias can not identify. So you do the same and we just do not understand each other or not? ekha, 8 years ago, #
;) Thesis straight already eliminated. Yes, in general, water as liquid, vaaapsche can occupy any position, subject to acceleration. And the acceleration of free fall - just a special case of acceleration:) Well, what had been said in the broadcast Pilot - already at a rhetorical question. What is the difference. Can u pelota just melted glass in the cup and he looked at the water to gain Emotional balance :))))) Contemplation water calms. Looks like it has helped them accomplish the task. Well, in celebration as the air and said something - say, water and flown contemplated. Landed - have drunk that water. Haaaha. Here's the answer "of water in a teapot." paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Or maybe they just thought that the water has helped them. :) ekha, 8 years ago, #
Behave like the old grandmother at the door, looked over all the gossip, pah! Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Oo, I see the evening shkolota the network povylazila actively minus my post, just out of jealousy and rage. Do not be so nervous. I spit at you. It's funny to you. Sit here, inventing stories and considers himself taakimi prodvintymi straight .. Aa, yes well, garbage. Schas again flow shit would fly to the fan. Shkolota - what to take with you. Rest. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Greenhouse kids ... maybe when you fly from muhosranska in ustpizdyuysk and there is no strong turbulence and the water from the glass ... pleschetsa not fly as PAX over the Pacific Ocean, such as Taipei-LA, oboletes six times by shaking at a height of 40t feet. Even a dull flight from Malaysia to Thailand will take a lot of fun, the height of 25futov but sometimes shakes so that not only fly glasses and eating caddis flies as a latrine. Ocean and tropical air flows work their magic on the levels! sereb, 8 years ago, #
I think they wanted to replace the glass but not AH EUP. AlexKz, 8 years ago, #
sereb, winged surface to skate? That explains why the water garbage. :) ekha, 8 years ago, #
And the market is still going on. Not tired of "experts"? Posazhayte as KVSa obestochenny aircraft on unprepared airfield, then we'll talk. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Yes! I was expecting it. D0% A1% D0% BF% D0% B5% D1% 80% D0% B2% D0% B0_% D0% B4% D0% BE% D0% B1% D0% B5% D0 % B9% D1% 81% D1% 8F:) Why do we need something to hold down? We here have condemned the crew? ekha, 8 years ago, #
Even the words I can not find. Well done guys! Captain_Denis, 8 years ago, #
It is good that there are guys who really fight for life till the end! Then and not afraid to fly! Doktor, 8 years ago, #
For the life of struggling until the end of everything. But not all so lucky. susanin, 8 years ago, #
Well done:) Nesa007, 8 years ago, #
A reason for refusal has not told? ilya_vas, 8 years ago, #
At 1 Kanani on TV said the failure of one of the four akkamulyatorov. cadet-74, 8 years ago, #
Che is there to say, it's incredible, a great example of the young pilots of civil aviation and just thank the pilots for their courage and heroism! You rock! Когалым, 8 years ago, #
Pilots lads! Finally can obaldet, so to land the plane, hardly anyone would be able to. Respect them and uvazhuha =) UHWW, 8 years ago, #
that there would nesluchilos, and the plane was put! lyudyami risk not worth it, because we are in Russia and so little: (140,000,000 good man is not worth the plane of human life! AFL336, 8 years ago, #
Otherwise, we will: 139999997: ( AFL336, 8 years ago, #
Well, more like we're going to look about the story no less heroic take-off))) Quote: "The Company" Mirny airline, which belongs to the Tu-154, has made an emergency landing on Sept. 7 in the Komi republic, hopes to return the aircraft in operation , writes the newspaper Kommersant. "representative of the airline said that it will be done, if in power plants and load-carrying aircraft design will not be revealed violations and Transport Ministry will permit. The plane is in the place of an emergency landing - on the runway, not suited for heavy aircraft, used primarily as a helipad. As the newspaper writes, the plane about 200 meters, dropped into the forest. According to the pilots, the likelihood that the Tu-154 can take from the forest and raised in the air with the help of test pilots very small. " KirillS, 8 years ago, #
Ребят, прошу, сойдитесь на том, что стакан = шарик и ставить его в кабине бессмысленно, так как шарик работает и без электричества.

Персонально paladdin'у: ваши многословные нравоучения школоте выглядят комично после заявлений типа "нарисуем центростремительную и центробежную силы, которые уравнивают друг друга". Предлагаю освежить в голове курс общей физики и вспомнить, что первая действует на тело в инерциальной СО, а вторая, являясь силой инерции - в СО связанной с телом. То есть они действуют на тело в разных системах отсчета и уравнивать друг друга не могут.
zirya, 8 years ago, #
Two forces are applied at one point called the center of mass of the body, and can counterbalance each other. Coordinate system to which you are trying to tie them have no meaning in their interaction. It's just physics. isc, 8 years ago, #
When I look at the carousel, I can see movement on the circle. The reason - a centripetal force. No centrifuge no. When I'm sitting on the carousel, I feel like I was pulling from the center. The reason - the centrifugal force. No centripetal no. And they will never balance each other is not. There is either one or the other. Textbook physics and Wikipedia to help you. zirya, 8 years ago, #
And on a carousel sidushku what forces are acting? Why not sidushka flies? So the seat operates on a bar with centrifugal force, but by the third law rod acts on this sidushku with the same force, but in the opposite direction. This is the centripetal. Score "2". :) ekha, 8 years ago, #
Effective reaction force support. But she did not centripetal as centripetal - the force when moving around something. A sidushka in the reference system carousel is dead. zirya, 8 years ago, #
zirya, and when experienced pilot or an astronaut in a centrifuge, which forces act on your opinion? And there are centrifugal force, gravity and tangensalnaya component on a tangent, that is directed to the trajectory of motion. The latter in turn has two components: the tangential acceleration, and the second - the centripetal acceleration. And also has a rather small role in the fact that our brave pilot (or astronaut) has not received various severe injuries in the cabin. That is, we conclude that the centripetal and centrifugal component have a place here, and simply can not exist without each other =) Expressed in ordinary language. Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
Well, firstly, as the tangential acceleration "may have" centripetal component is not very clear. I think you are simply sealed. And in fact: there he sits in a centrifuge. Circling nothing moves! For him, a visual camera is in place, as he himself in it. In his experience a force of gravity, where do without it, the tangential force to spin and even "understand how rotating bar" force that presses it into the wall. And it is taken as a non-inertial reference system and move it to 1mu Newton's law just can not. Only with the introduction of inertial forces. Voila! Centrifugal force. But the camera is something hard. And she is enjoying the 3 rd Newton's law puts pressure on him in response. zirya, 8 years ago, #
and the fig, I asked about this glass? )))))) Now even more confused ..... olega154, 8 years ago, #
From the very first news I heard (or rather heard). serg09, 8 years ago, #
Hare sorry (((( [email protected]@n, 8 years ago, #
Hare in mind Spotters was ... DAR, 8 years ago, #
Hare was in the shower spotter. ahahahaahahahahahahhaahhaahahahahahahahah artur737-300, 8 years ago, #
There Siberians here? In Siberia in the early operation of the pores had a similar case. On the train passed out absolutely everything, but engines could be heard - work. After 15 seconds back and suddenly everything worked. Only naturally, without a flight plan and other things Эрник, 8 years ago, #
Operating Airbus forgot to clarify Эрник, 8 years ago, #
The crew is good. I am now wondering why all cut off? Enterprise, 8 years ago, #
Not only to you. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
likely flight engineer should at least have some idea why it all crashed out .... but for some reason it does not show ... BigDen, 8 years ago, #
A glass of water on the panel set, all flooded, so devices and cut down:) alshe, 8 years ago, #
Do not cut off, and NOT ON! To close the current relyushki need! Vladimir_76, 8 years ago, #
In the way as flight engineer made a heat dispersal batteries eventually Tamchy zgorelo then, after that he hooked up serviceable network, something that has burned down, and eventually burnt out, in general, the human factor. gospodin, 8 years ago, #
heroes serembon, 8 years ago, #
Well done guys! Have done the impossible! I respect! Anthony, 8 years ago, #
Thank flight engineer! mikuz, 8 years ago, #
Michael, aerobatics ... Nikolay_Sukhikh, 8 years ago, #
Thanks crew! Санька-заЛЕТЧИК, 8 years ago, #
I admire the crew. So many lives were saved. Heroes! Bubnov, 8 years ago, #
Thank you Mihail Stepanov, 8 years ago, #
Pro! BlackKSV, 8 years ago, #
Well done, with water as the idea! and this in an emergency situation! radist, 8 years ago, #
Tales about the glass as I live and I hear so much. Basically put the glass half-filled voenletov habit. They probably learned this / or failures very often. So do not come up, and used :-) Mihail Stepanov, 8 years ago, #
Well, the situation is extreme, you could not remember !)))) citrus-94, 8 years ago, #
but I'm not doponimayu about glass, how many did not fly, well, never saw that the liquid in a glass of "moving" ... the same physics, at such speeds even a barrel, it still must remain in place ... But what got cool, it's clear! olega154, 8 years ago, #
Houses just try: Pour a glass of water and tilt left, right - the water will always be exactly in the glass is. Anthony, 8 years ago, #
For the gifted Simmer (like for example Anthony) -​=Xp2Uc9XvmjY mikuz, 8 years ago, #
mdya ... Again we have to box "duck" run? limansky, 8 years ago, #
Anthony! Tilt the glass, but the twist around its axis. What then? Or pour water into a bottle, close it, tie the rope and moving around. Similarly behaves Tu-154 in turn. But if you run directly from a tilted glass, then water and show the slope. But the Tu-154 so can not fly. ekha, 8 years ago, #
So, they lie directly in the camera, when told about the glass? ALEX_17, 8 years ago, #
Just do not know, that's all. ekha, 8 years ago, #
Hmm strange, but if you do not know the laws of physics, zanchit they canceled? citrus-94, 8 years ago, #
What has abolished? Do not know, decided to take advantage. In a critical situation and could not remember physics. ekha, 8 years ago, #
Oh no, is it just because if does not work, why should we talk to the contrary? citrus-94, 8 years ago, #
I looked again, experts have gathered here, sitting at the computer can be a lot of clever, you acting crew passed through it really says. So do not try to be clever, kids. Glass, it is the same ball under artificial horizon or EUPe. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Not going to get smart, just like vyyasnit.Ved prevent this happening do not need to err people!)) From nailuchshemi wishes citrus-94, 8 years ago, #
I do not remember. They said that they put the glass. But they said that it oriented? They spoke only what to expect from him. But I could really use ... At least I have not heard of this. ekha, 8 years ago, #
So they think, understand that they were wrong and nothing taken advantage of this glass. ekha, 8 years ago, #
But when you fly in the cabin of Bull's Eye reeling!​images/pribori/ki13n.jpg radist, 8 years ago, #
I like that "Bull's Eye" is more like it. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
What kind of nonsense about the fact that a glass of water remains in the quiet state, personally checked as Pax, try if you do not believe. alel5, 8 years ago, #
alel5, and you have what people are cheating? Or do you think that the approval of the competent in the matter of people drawn from scratch and they (those people) would never fly a plane? video link mikuza what's this? Video? Well, about "check themselves, do not hesitate - check often! ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
I have already told how to spend your experience in the home. Physicist nicherta not studied, abandoned it, and now saliva splash here and describe an alternate reality. I agree only that the water can sometimes pull. But what of this twitching determine ... ekha, 8 years ago, #
And what is your physics is? Do not confuse a centrifuge with a roll plane. If you lay a turn with the overload (coordinated turn), then yes, the liquid you do not show. And if you just fill up the bank, not working the pedals, it will show. Shareg on the flight instrument're not on the noodle rolls. The pedals on the zeros, but the bank is, therefore, the ball has deviated from the center - hence the water in the glass, too, deviates from the neutral position! A video from mikuz-and nothing but the plane to spin around its longitudinal axis with a positive acceleration. If you look closely, it is very clearly seen that before creating roll pilot pulled shrurval "over" (the horizon line goes down at the same time), thereby creating this overload. Here's a glass of water lapped and shovelnulas, sobsna as the ball on its flight instrument. You ask Svetlana Kapaninu take you with me on a flight with just such a cup, but put it on the dashboard. And in the air so casually ask to spin "bochechku. Oh, I am sure it then you can fight for such zvizdyuley obgazhennuyu cab. Ру19300, 8 years ago, #
The water will display a maximum slip (ball). If you read me carefully, you'll find the answer to something, what is my physics. I said that if run right by tilting the glass, the water will slope. But the Tu-154 so can not fly. And without pedals with a roll he will lay a turn. Accordingly, the motion along a circle, the vector of the centrifugal acceleration, the vector of weight with all the consequences are the place to be. If flying sport plane with a roll and openly, then obgadili to all. ekha, 8 years ago, #
ekha +1000! inclined at an angle, if not to the wheel "themselves" and do not use the pedals, the aircraft will provide a turn to dive in the water this time course will shift (slip), but do not roll! "A friend alel5 says to us that being pax on the plane, he tested the water in a glass of something to him that there pokazyvala.Interesno "Oh, nothing!" It might only be a slight fluctuation of the water as a result boltanki.Ved on the train at the headland (greatest bank coordinated) in a passenger liner roll over 35 degrees, but the passengers do not notice, quiet dinner and drink water from a cup! "And nothing breaks and the liquid from the cup does not erupt. ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
That's ... We have all obstructed planes would fly. ekha, 8 years ago, #
In general, do not understand anything. A shift of water from the roll that is your opinion? She seemed in a special moves or something? Steps is built? Or is it a plane surface of the water will seek to maintain the parallelism of the horizon and, hence, it directly indicates the presence of roll? What Tu5 turns without pedals work - ECA wonder. Each aircraft will be rotated, some worse, some better. Antonov An-24 also turns without pedals, so what? Would you like to say that the ball while the center remains? I never believe. Even if accompanying a turn and there will be a centrifugal force tending to return the ball in place, it will be negligible, and with more or less perceptible roll the ball, like a glass of water, this roll show. In order to return it to the center of a horseradish would have to move the pedals. And why are so confident that the management echelon of the AP will be carried out strictly coordinated reversals? UP to all aircraft controls the rudder? Here ekha wrote :"... In a critical situation and could not remember the physics ... " As a little hard to believe in it. Are they so before his first interview and did not think that nonsense poryat? Until recently, remained in critical situations and veremeni to think they have not been entirely? Yes they would, long before the conversation with reporters squadron leader shook his finger at his temple would have sensed delirium in their words. They're probably written records of the flight, conducted interviews with inspectors and stopudovo about that same glass of water at least once would have faltered. Following the logic of ekha, a healthy educated men experienced poryat frankly nonsense into the camera, and their colleagues at this time of puke in front of their television screens, because even "gifted Simmer" is to say the mind is not coming. Ру19300, 8 years ago, #
not believe it, but personally heard the pilots Gauvreau: what ha .. u have?! a cup !!!!... and our grandfathers, from which it is heard, I believe much boloshe than my friends who have already learned how to work the camera .... Once again: the main thing that the outcome of a happy ..... olega154, 8 years ago, #
Why do you roll it with cross ... Mauges they talked about the longitudinal roll. But what's the difference then? What do you with this glass cling? It is better to say thank you - ma-la-dtsy pilots, this time the pilots are not killed a plane, but just the opposite - well, no casualties, all normul! A drowning man clutches at a straw. In some cases, water is poured, in others - and the glass falls nafik. What is the difference that the pilots there been told that? After suffering a stress .. ..... In the mikuz-ohm video water is poured not because it is not principle the shed, but because the pilot did not allow it to shed. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Py19300, you really do not ponyali.Voda will briefly shift does not result in a roll, but to the fact that the plane lay virazh.Vozmite glass of water and not tipping him to move sharply in any direction, so you will see a shift vody.Konechno primitive example but all zhe.Vot if the plane in this case, the Tu-154, could provide a roll and continue straight flight, that's when the water would have shown bias, but the Tu-154 (or any passenger liner) so can not fly, ekha already wrote about it. ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
And esche.Danny crew in one of the videotapes refers to the flight engineer, the type that he put the glass on a table, and the pilots did not even realize at first what it is sdelal.No bortacha we are nowhere in the picture is not vidim.Da not you think that In such an emergency flight engineer was more important than the Activities, except to fill a glass of water, which is actually him (bortachu) do nothing and simply could not help you? aircraft de-energized, and the flight engineer, instead, that would make every effort to troubleshooting sits and pours water into a glass! "Something does not fit. ROCK_AVIA, 8 years ago, #
But what's the difference, what the pilots said that for the ether. They've planted the plane, right? All were alive? Nuu. Winners are not judged. If you land a plane, then they show the direction of the water, like a compass. They can now vobschemto any tales to tell of the ether, which nafik difference, maybe they have such "setting on top" was. Now, if not arrested - then of course, would be to them a question - EURO at there they poured vodka into glasses, instead of running to look for having broken the wiring harness? "Generally, we will not know for sure what happened there, why, how much and how de-energize. The media can pour tons of misinformation to the masses on the basis of this here "cups", just to divert attention from the main topic - "what happened and who is to blame." Here you are now rages over the "cup", and finally can pofig all that happened there. Home - vypendritsya to others. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Ru19300 I Balde. You say that the centrifugal acceleration is small. Gy .. It is so large that the centrifugal force compensates for all the other forces and the body moves in a circle. Force has compensated! Right? As the water then? Nothing! It was and remains. Most will slip, if any, leaning out of inertia, like the ball. If there is no slip, then nothing will. And you are sure that with the turn must necessarily attend it slip? "However, go here:​c/107222-v-komi-sovershil-avar​iynuu-posadku-samolet-tu- 154m /. Then half of Topeka dedicated glass. ekha, 8 years ago, #
At the turn "on all the rules" slip must be absent. It should, but not obliged. Otherwise I would not put a pointer to slip. There would be no training on the "quality turn". .... Strictly speaking, the coefficient "centrifugal force" can not compensate for all the forces is only part of all forces. The vector itself centrifugal force directed along the radius from the geometric center of rotation. And only. All that makes the centrifugal force in the strict physical sense - it balances the centripetal force, so the body describes a circle of given radius. But the body (aircraft) are other forces. That should be the sum of each of the forces, as a result of leading to equilibrium. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
These two forces, centrifugal and centripetal must compensate the weight of water, created by force of gravity. Weight in this case - the force. Mass of water in the glass is so small that its weight is compensated by these two forces. If a plane was a barrel with 40 tons of water, then we would be able to something identified. ekha, 8 years ago, #
Let's look in more detail, albeit with simplifications. Draw on paper force vectors. The first case - horizontal rectilinear flight uniform. The vector of gravity down vector podemnoy strength up, they are the same as horizontal flight. Vector thrust forward, the vector of air resistance back, they are the same, since the motion is uniform. Vectors of lateral forces are absent, because flying straight. Well, all the beam at a glass of water are all the same strength as the glass is rigidly fixed in the plane. ... The case of the second - the uniform horizontal motion of the circle (banks do not consider only the forces). To the body move in a circle parallel to the horizon, we draw a vector of the centripetal force, directed radially towards the center of the circle. And to the radius of the circle is not changed, as opposed to the centripetal vector construct another vector of the centrifugal force (in fact - is the force of inertia, tending to retain the original position of the body). Further, since the body moves horizontally and with the same speed, add 4 previously described vector. Here vetkory forces acting on any body moving uniformly horizontally in a circle of constant radius. Strength - is the product of mass by acceleration. The acceleration of Earth's gravity - 9.81 m/s2, the centripetal acceleration = the square of the linear skoroti divided by the radius of the circle. The lengths of the vectors, ie, these values can force yourself to count. That's it, simple as that. When moving in a circle in the plane, DIFFERENT VERTICAL, centrifugal (or centripetal) force acts on a different plane than the force of gravity, and therefore can not compensate. Otherwise it would be ... otherwise in the accident under Mezhdurechensk in 94-m inclined at an angle of 90 degrees to the plane fell and spun in one place, without reduction. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
Agreed. But in another plane or not, this is not important. If you roll a 90 ° lift vector is rotated also at 90 °, ie parallel to the ground. Therefore, the sum of the vectors of gravity and lift force is directed toward the ground at an angle of 45 ° (if these two forces are equal, and they are equal with a sharp roll). Now, about the glass. Centripetal force creates the aircraft increases the angle of attack or pitch (ie, an increase of lift) with the increase of the motor. Accordingly, the sum of these vectors should be directed to the center of a circle parallel to the ground. This will be the centripetal force. If the lifting force will be too high, then the sum of the vectors already above will be sent (not parallel to the ground) and the plane in a curve will go up. Well all right. Now the glass. The water in it tends to come up with a circle. Centrifugal force depends on the mass of water, all true. But the airplane keeps the glass, does not allow him to escape. The total vector of gravity of the aircraft and lift with roll any large centrifugal force cup. So we have a glass of its centrifugal force, the force with which the aircraft operates on the glass and the opposite effect to it (weight) on the third law of Newton, in addition, we have the force of gravity cup. It should be noted that the glass is standing on an inclined surface. So draw a picture when the body is on an inclined surface. Spread by vectors. There is clear. So with a glass all the same, but adds a vector of centrifugal force and the picture changes dramatically. If a glass of profit, the water in the plane in general can have a wall build up, if it is overloaded. That's me in the fact that water was shamelessly lie and roll on her fig define. ekha, 8 years ago, #
Yes, correct, correct, and I did not mind that in the steady reversal without sliding the water will take a position of short on nellya will definitely judge the true rolls. And the ball pointer slip - proof. All true. But only in the idealized case, when "all of the rules." Generally, if it so rigorously to dig into the laws of motion of the aircraft, we must take into account the fact that on the wing than the lift force and drag force. Resultant vector is therefore directed several ago. Well, roughly speaking, the deviation of the wheel will change the angle of attack, that is, the deflection force on the wing. ... Emmm ... that "the gravity vector will be equal to the vector of centrifugal force during a sharp roll" - this is just a special case. Since the centrifugal force depends on the radius of turn (ie, roll in the ideal case) and linear (angular) velocity, but the force of gravity depends only on the mass of the aircraft. F = m * a, m - mass, a - acceleration. Acceleration of free fall time. Centripetal acceleration - the ratio of the square of linear velocity to the radius of the circle. In the particular case, of course, can make the forces equal. But generally, yes, in a turn the plane's motion through the arc set centripetal component of wing lift. Cause and roll planes in turn. paladdin, 8 years ago, #
- Kindergarten! Сокол, 8 years ago, #
In kindergarten this does not pass. If anyone has any questions or kindergarten sayings about the glass, can look here. ekha, 8 years ago, #
I'm talking about your behavior Сокол, 8 years ago, #
What does it matter? We've been quietly discussing the physical side of the issue. And, quite successful and entertaining. The decision was taken. Someone was not happy with the result? Some people still want to believe that the glass will roll? ekha, 8 years ago, #
Glass slide show. And here you are not a forum. ekha, how you will determine the spatial position in the clouds with non-operating CAT? Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Well done, just summaries of physics were. But forget about the main thing. Pilots had one goal - get out of the clouds in level flight, avoiding the critical modes. Who flew one knows that the plane is derived from the simple equilibrium deflection wheel to create a roll. At this very moment, the level in the glass and show this bias, ie before entering the aircraft in a coordinated turn. Therefore, to fix (although not a long time) and to prevent of sudden roll of the buffeting of the Sun in obachnosti or erroneous actions the pilot (in consequence of the illusion of spatial position of the Sun - "parry the pilot appearing to roll"), a glass of water will completely . All successful flights. PilotUmnik, 8 years ago, #
Brief, clear and without formulas. susanin, 8 years ago, #
I know that even as the index slip may come common thread, fixed on the windshield (standard bonded tape or something else). In addition, more sensitive than the ball. PS It's just so, I think it will be interesting for those who do not know. Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
About the water and roll all is said, nothing to add. Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
Profi! But most of them are lucky, whatever one may say, would be the night, count them all ... Although it was possible to track and search at night easier with this business, and it is hardly just luck, except against the crew! To award uniquely! Владимир Пахомов, 8 years ago, #
From highway scheme is very doubtful! There are poles along the roads, and if so then wings goodbye means to fire. Better field IMHO. Mihail Stepanov, 8 years ago, #
And then the trees), good luck big role here Sigrun! Span Tupolev not such bolshyo to posts on the road hurt) that's machine would have prevented this fakt.Kak here in Dubai recently Владимир Пахомов, 8 years ago, #
Which route, which posts ... in the Komi? You what? And, incidentally, considered the sake of interest - that whole bird does not hit the poles on the road (taking into account that they were standing on the side, not the middle), this route should have 4 lanes in each direction. In view of the curb and nehiloy a dividing line. AlexMur, 8 years ago, #
And the designer Andrei N. Tupolev. THANK YOU! For a reliable car!! that if someone did not say ... daewooo, 8 years ago, #
A more accurate AS Shengardta, DS Markov, and of course Sergey Jaeger. :) Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
Ну что тут ещё скажешь... После стольких непрятных проишествий за крайнее время наконец таки всё закончилось хорошо.
На 'Русском авосе' и на таких вот ребятах вся Россия испокон веков держится!
STRELOK2014, 8 years ago, #
Unthinkable event, the pilots fellows sseerrgg, 8 years ago, #
Bravo! I bow the crew for their skill in truth the master! Give us heroes Russia and 50yat prizes! Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
Bravo !!!!! DeNFS, 8 years ago, #
No comments. Heroes. qip88, 8 years ago, #
Bravo! alshe, 8 years ago, #
. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
... citrus-94, 8 years ago, #
I'm still in shock! It is only God helped them, I can not explain to another! Vladimir_76, 8 years ago, #
Let not perfectly correct decision, but the main outcome of the prosperous. A stroke of luck and success in our profession is not in last place ... IgorStr, 8 years ago, #
Yes, quite correctly, that they saw an abandoned airfield and decided to go sit down, the news said that at the last moment saw the band, but if it had not been seen would have to be in the woods or field, sits down and is unlikely to be the outcome of the landing was so successful . Anthony, 8 years ago, #
I do not understand NTV-Schnick - for some reason they always have to compare this situation with a landing on the Hudson? It is that, in order to show that we can fly like Americans? Yes, our pilots - in fact the best and this emergency situation yet again proof. And on the Neva River and our guys Tu-124 were put to the Americans. Crew - Well done!! And yet, dear fots, it seems to me that this report should not be placed under catastrophe. And very cool that it did not happen! Clean Sky, 8 years ago, #
Povolte make a comment, which of course many do not like it. Of course there are pilots professionalism + great luck, I wrote about this below. The fact that the time-out on the train they were about 70 km from Usinsk, where the band of 2500 m, the normal, the expenditure of fuel tank for 30 minutes of flight, so that prevented them reach the standards of the band? The staffing reduction to train about 100 km, urgent naturally less. Three times to try on the concrete strip in Izhme-sozhresh more, but still not sure what it will do .. Something dull somehow .. Vladimir_76, 8 years ago, #
I think a lot of factors played a role, and the most basic of them are ordinary human panic, panic may well crudely stated, but your squirmy nerves in such extreme situations, you must admit it? Also denied all the electronics, to navigation, etc. it was virtually impossible, no vectoring by ATC, no communication, nothing, so they immediately began to decline. Here and wonder way got into the field of view, this band, what else to do, sit course. Yes, every person in this extreme sports could create anything, get caught less "restrained" the crew is unknown what the outcome could have expected this board and all passengers. Ravnmm, 8 years ago, #
and you're in an unfamiliar area without devices try to correct course for this airfield to take, and if accidentally lose your way ... Completely without navigation and ATC! so they dropped and they went visually. STRELOK2014, 8 years ago, #
Rather, they declined to run the APU, did not work, and may link disappeared due to loss of height, but there is nothing left .. ps From the device-map, a course that passed, the magnetic compass, altimeter (with no pressure, it is true, but it is very important, well that was very visual) may ZHPS) Yes, and radio for some time worked, had they somehow a report on an electrical failure? Well, what more mechanization not released, and then used kirdyk Vladimir_76, 8 years ago, #
If you look there is clearly visible electric light lamps at the front counter))) Doktor, 8 years ago, #
No words! Great crew! toxin_pilot, 8 years ago, #
Pilots simple profiles with a capital letter, correctly said that those holding Russia Mother, I am proud of his countrymen, only the Russian pilots could land the plane in the forest, I'm just proud of our pilots, professionals in their field! skill_mihail, 8 years ago, #
Yes epicheskaya same force - that you argue with that glass of water then? Here otvett, gentlemen and comrades, on what principle BUILT WORK INDICATOR SLIDE ????? WHAT IS LIQUID INDEX OF LONGITUDINAL AND TRANSVERSE ROLL ????? AAA? Nuu same? And the behavior of the aircraft under normal cross-roll? And what is happening with fuel in the tanks during sliding in a turn? A? What is SLIP?? And what CRAEN? paladdin, 8 years ago, #
In! Chief specials! Not leaving for companies figured out! Oleg, what are you still in the Mac not working? Maybe then why name it because of what all the fuss, aliens must have? I believe the crew, they are acting pilots. Who are you?? Сокол, 8 years ago, #
And about two passes with deenergized plane confuses me, there is clearly steering wheel must be pretty porabotat, although a 4 times to spin Владимир Пахомов, 8 years ago, #
Comrade Captain, so they too air force officers (VTA) in stock. Or FAC to the whole country will be talking shit. So in the end, you 154th, as I understand it, do not have to plant, and, incidentally, is a campaign bortach there something and he has done. Although I pronounced, before the time do not judge, is the conclusion of the commission, will talk. And if you then and did not finish, so does this mean to you and not supposed to know. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
extreme phrase not understand ... Сокол, 8 years ago, #
MSRP judge. But before the time to blame people who saved so many people I would not. I noticed you do not like the CF-s; conflict with the commander? Сокол, 8 years ago, #
They could, and worked. And if the person does not respond, it does not mean that he has nothing to say. Athletes ... Ру19300, 8 years ago, #
Ha! Curly in his repertoire. First, write some Muine and then rubbed it safely. Whether it is shameful, then the mood changes ... My previous message about the wing reverse. Could work, and worked. Ру19300, 8 years ago, #
. .. In order to simultaneously denied the power system. Navigation and fuel pumps. "Again looked after the movie .... such a statement I have no words. And here I butted in uv.Sokol Zhurnalyugi again. not knowing anything about the crash howl. NTV shit !!!!!! Curl64, 8 years ago, #
but SW. RU19300 What is denied, in your opinion on board this plane? forcing the crew to urgently seek a place to land? Curl64, 8 years ago, #
led me to this post, guys. Eh .... sorry. if anything ..... I'm ashamed and sorry for the fact that non-existent problem defending. again sorry. Curl64, 8 years ago, #
Pilots super, but such units in Russia, very much hope that they will now fly on normal planes sereb, 8 years ago, #
So, get on board with the pilots that level we have in Russia - a negligible probability, and all of them luck. It's a miracle, probability theory taxis! Nikolay_Sukhikh, 8 years ago, #
sereb, where such statistics? Or all stupidly judged on its own? ekha, 8 years ago, #
See "News". Even they say that there is a crew of old-school, studied further in the Union, but whether the current ..? Сокол, 8 years ago, #
Yes, that me this "News"? Zomboyaschik smaller look. A real opinion about the pilots will be only when working with them as a start, again, the pilot. ekha, 8 years ago, #
A monitor companies, this zombie-What? Сокол, 8 years ago, #
What's a monitor? For some, it pyleyaschik, pornoyaschik, simoyaschik etc. ekha, 8 years ago, #
That is, on this I'd rather watch TV will, but then you here quite out of touch with reality. Сокол, 8 years ago, #
ekha, I'm not a pilot myself I have nothing to judge, statistics from Ineta bluntly, the latest disaster in the scoops look around pilot error. 204 nedoletel in Domodedovo, copilot with kukuruznika only tears in the Permian of the rails slammed finally can buhie pilots and so on. There may even look at the statistics, 90% pilot error sereb, 8 years ago, #
Sokol, see Telecom, see. That's reality for you. That being said, for such as you intended. Sereb, how many times in the Soviet era Tupolev Tu-154 crashed through the fault of the crew? Where not spit - everywhere blame the crew. So, the pilots are bad? Maybe, but not a fact. This too must be treated with skepticism. It is easier to blame the crew than anything KB forcing finalize your project and upgrade all previously released aircraft. ekha, 8 years ago, #
ekha, you have some sort of a TV-fear:) Сокол, 8 years ago, #
You probably latent TV-man:) Сокол, 8 years ago, #
"The latest disaster in the scoops look around pilot error. 204 nedoletel in Domodedovo-copilot with kukuruznika only tears in the Permian of the rails slammed finally can buhie pilots and so on." - Dude really behind the times, scoop 20 years already as no =)) Den33, 8 years ago, #
There is no theory of probability here, dear Nikolay_Sukhikh! There are two factors gave a superb alternative: First, in no doubt - the highest professionalism and a deep calm of the crew, including the commander. Secondly luck in the weather, time of day and in the area ... Too bad the other, these people need to move forward, share experience, and be an example, debug and build to some extent the training .... But alas, the bureaucrat from the punch, but not by professionals from God rulyat now everybody .... Angariya, 8 years ago, #
Den33 it is just called today on another and you live there)) sereb, 8 years ago, #

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